Theres been quite a few award winners that get all negative votes yet still get top 5 when theres better..... Wonder what thats about
Driven, if nothing else.
Age 37, Male
Motion Artist and In
Northern Rivers NSW
Joined on 1/11/04
- Level:
- 13
- Exp Points:
- 1,678 / 1,880
- Exp Rank:
- 37,267
- Vote Power:
- 5.49 votes
- Rank:
- Portal Security
- Global Rank:
- 24,024
- Blams:
- 176
- Saves:
- 239
- B/P Bonus:
- 8%
- Whistle:
- Normal
- Trophies:
- 45
- Medals:
- 113
- Gear:
- 1
Maths :/
I think the bottom line is that internet people are the fattest fucks of all time, more now than ever, and won't go beyond what you stick in their face from the git go. If they see things they'll do things, but never look for it. The effects have to be visible and their goals and targets have to be out in the open.
Pretty well, people dont want to have to look for content, they will just sit and watch whatever is put in front of them.
It is disheartening that even legit authors have to resort to cheap youtube grade tricks like having a borderline porn preview icon to gain views, even Spazkid.
To be honest, when you're pandering to lowest common denominators like children, you can't really expect a quality audience. A lot of the older users here act like they just finished prescool.
Spazkids work is becoming mostly just porn, when you censor it one could say the nudity is a joke, on the other hand uncensored it becomes pure gratuitous tittilation for little boys to jerk off over.
I think some of the fault (and this relating to people like me) lies in being extremely busy outside the internet. When I was younger and had all the time in the world, I used to come to the portal and vote all the time, watch the crappy and good submission.
However now, having work, social life outside the internet and making video games, I've been too busy to watch and vote fairly on the submissions. I think some people are like me in respect and just don't have the time anymore. Not saying all the users are like this but I'm sure there is some.
I really should get more involved...It's a pretty awesome community, it has it's bad sides but what site doesn't. :)
I think the key to that statement is "when you were younger" because I feel the same way. What that makes me wonder is why arent younger people coming here anymore? I mean they get introduced to youtube at a young age through facebook or whatever else, how is anyone even supposed to know Newgrounds exists?
I don't recall seeing an option that allows you to instantly share a submission via a quick-link forum post.
Say you are in the games/art/movies sections and you click on something you want to watch, under the viewing window you can find social media outlet links to share the content, why isn't there one that auto links you to the NG forums related to the content (Art leads to Art Forum and so on) and it will also give you a default title to start you off?
Something like
Visit page (Let's say EXAMPLE ART PAGE)
click NG Share button
Links to the NG Forum's related section (Art section)
Auto creates a thread with title relating to the page you where on (Check out EXAMPLE ART PAGE or Discuss EXAMPLE ART PAGE) the title could be changed if needed.
This could spread the word about potentially unknown submissions a bit faster i people are concerned we are traversing into a 'Like-Facebook' era.
Sounds like a simple idea that could help a little, and thats whats important here, every little bit helps.
As a quick point before the rest of my post, you mentioned spazkid's vid, but that's not the best indicator of traffic on the site. The YouTube version of his vid contained links to NG promising the uncensored version. After 2 million hits on YouTube, I'm sure a HUGE portion of the NG hits are simply people that followed the YouTube link. More traffic to NG is always great, it's just not a good measurement of active people on the site. I mean, Spaz only has like 5,000 followers here? not enough to make up the discrepancy between his work and the average 10-50k hits something else on the FP will get.
That's another thing: fans. The fan button is the only thing people have to show their support with, and they protect it with a passion. In the real world, a person votes with his or her dollar, and on the internet that dollar is the "fan" button.
On YouTube, if you don't subscribe immediately, you will probably never see content from that creator again; there's an incentive to be a subscriber. On NG, if the content is good, the artist will be on the FP again at some point, so there's no need to be hasty with your subscription. What ends up happening is that there are people who are regularly on the FP here (Pahgawk, emrox, hikarian, etc.) with under 1,000 fans.
I see the appeal of moving UJ to the FP, but I also see a lot of problems with it; like @TomFulp mentioned, shitty pieces on the FP can equate to new visitors not returning. Seems like there could be a happy medium, though. Maybe a system closer to what sites like reddit do; keep a section on the FP for works that have a good score after a certain number of votes. An amount not too high or too low that cycles through new content as it meets the criteria. That's why people love reddit; people voting on the new section get satisfaction from hugely influencing how a post will do, while people on the FP get to see nothing but good (constant) content.
There's also the whole karma thing, which let's commenters gain a form of points by commenting. If NG implemented something like that for reviewers, it could result in more activity on that front, but that might lead to people making comments that plead for points instead of leaving helpful critiques. Maybe a one section for comments and one for actual reviews?
I don't know what I'm talking about though, maybe that system just wouldn't be feasible on NG.
Spazkids work isn't the best indicator of work on the site by any means, BUT its the sort of thing that when other animators see it, particularly professional animators who could recommend the site to other pros, turns them right off from submitting here. (The same could be said of Zone). Its a chicken and an egg situation, does the site want to attract more creatives that could pull in more traffic OR does it want to pull in more traffic that could attract creatives back again.
The fan button could definitely use some work, its really small and took a while before I noticed it was there. It also doesn't notify you when someone has become a fan, which I dont like because I like to personally message everyone who subscribes to me, wether it be through youtube, twitter or deviant art.
I agree Gerkin. I haven't submitted content here in a couple years, and when I did just recently, I was surprised and rather bummed that my submission stayed under judgement for a few days. It didn't used to take that long. And it is discouraging to feel unnoticed when people with a larger fan base like you said seem to get privileged treatment. I used to like Newgrounds because it allowed lesser known artists to get recognized, but now it feels like they don't care.
I still love the site, and I think it's done amazing things for animators, musicians, and programmers and has a great sense of community. It's just too easy to get lost in all the submissions in the portal.
I think its important to recognise that the problem isn't with the staff of Newgrounds or the people here, its simply to do with the way content is coming through the portal without getting the amount of exposure that they once would have. I think the feeling of Newgrounds not caring comes more from the fact its been a problem for a while and is getting worse without any posts about fixes or for suggestions more than anything.
I also think Timmy's Tumour is one of the most under appreciated animations I've seen this year. Great little short. Dont let it stop you making content.
Totally agree with you there. The Portal has definitely changed for the worse I personally feel that it has something to do with the latest layout. Remember when there was a clear link to the flash portal? now there's categories for new animations, popular animations and under judgement animations....oh, and the "classic portal". Newcomers aren't gonna know what a portal is! Here's an idea, just keep the classic portal and fuck all that extra shit. have the portal set like how it was before because this new portal is obviously not working out. The Classic Portal was more appealing but unfortunately, its covered with with that damn movies menu.
It does all seem a little bloated, I would love to know what the traffic flow is like for those latest and greatest pages.
Oh man, what an brobdingnagian amount of ideas this post sparked! Lots of good points brought up along the way, but after all's skimmed it seems MindChamber's ideas at how to tweak the portal at the very bottom of the post still seem most relevant. Also @LeafLock, the $100 incentive isn't new, it's just better announced now. Now what I'd like to see is:
- The classic portal view extended, maybe doubled
- A way to view all submissions in list view, like you could do in the old days
- That missing embed feature
- Less interest in phasing out Flash as the main form of content, it's still relevant; it's great at reducing file-sizes by recycling included objects
- The blam/protect animations to reward the voter
- The secrets! They've been gone too long!!
Also read the comment on subtitles in MP4 files. I think what Psycopath was getting at is the fact that you can't include multiple streams/languages. MP4s can't contain layers the same ways as Flash, something that can be useful for a lot of things, not just subs. Scene selections, menus, toggleable scripting to enhance or distort playback without it affecting the animation, etc.
I'd also have liked to see the new UJ section integrated with the Latest panel, but I do understand the reasoning, appreciably explained below, behind separating UJ entries from the main forms of content. All the same it's a shame to see NG trying to cater to all potential audiences instead of just blazing its own trail and making history, it was the attitude of this place that originally brought me here, the freedom, that and... stats. Maybe place more focus on the role-playing aspects this place promotes? Leveling up is fun! Gaining B/P is fun! Getting a deity whistle is fun too! I don't think the general populace of the net is so lazy or busy they don't have time or will to delve their selves into such mundane tasks, they're just lost amongst the overload of content forms and communities. It's always fun to read new blogs by users who just found this place and are starting to realize the potentials of it, but it doesn't seem so easy for new users to get introduced, the WIKI is much harder to find than the old Info/Lit/Help section.
@Gerkinman re: I will forward this to god so he can code it in.
It's on my infinite list of tasks, thanks for the forward!
In a more serious note, the sad truth nobody really wants to talk about is NG simply can't just change with the times like all these other sites simply because we lack the support and resources. We've been a very independent site for years, and have really tried to limit how we censor things by giving the power to the people to say what they feel is acceptable. This is what always made NG so great.
Ironically, this very thing that once made NG so great is also a part of our current problems. All these other sites got to start new and clean with no previous reputations to overcome. Advertisers and venture capital firms were lined up to back these new companies who modeled much of their systems off the things NG pioneered years ago. They were able to grow to become corporations with 100s of programmers to address every problem and design the current standards for content sharing and social networking.
Meanwhile, we just don't have those billions of dollars behind us. We scratch and claw for every advertising partnership we get and even decline some because we know people on the site will complain about them. We only have THREE programmers to maintain a code-base that is over a decade old. We have dozens of sub-communities each begging us to cater to their wants and needs, and they all have valid demands and suggestions.
These things you would like to see change... we ALL would like to see change. Tom is always linking us to these kinds of posts and getting upset because we let somebody down. We definitely hear everyone and we WANT to address everything, but there are always hurdles to progress with NG.
With every new update, feature or enhancement we add, we have a lot of pressure to begin another one immediately after. This often leads to a bunch of bugs that go uncaught for weeks, months or even years because we are constantly tacking on new things or making drastic changes to very old systems without a strong team of programmers to support us.
This is by no means an excuse to leave NG in its current state, just some insight into how in many ways, the NG staff is more frustrated with how things are than you guys are. We will address these issue, but it's going to take time. And a lot of alcohol I imagine..
Whats the deal god, I thought you were all powerful. Why do you even need a list?
I guess the real question is if the site cant update with the times and how people consume media then what can it do? I know you guys have a small team and are lacking resources, thats sort of comes with the grounds of being independent. I understand the need to let people express themselves and how integral it is to Newgrounds culture, but as you acknowledged its also whats ended up making things so hard in this current climate.
Your also right about how advertisers work, you will be hard pressed to ever find anyone to back this site financially with the reputation is has built over the years. Having people like Shadman (brilliant as he is) uploading beastiality to the site isn't going to help (just as one example). And the other side affect is its not just affecting the site but "Newgrounds" as a brand outside of the site on places such as Tumblr and Youtube. It also sadly puts Tom as the owner of the representative of the site in the place of being someone who is fine with that sort of thing when he goes looking for potential business collaborations in the future which obviously makes making deals harder again. There is every chance that even if Newgrounds was to close and something new was to be born that based on his linkage to Newgrounds the same problems would carry over.
I never thought these were issues that you guys weren't aware of, but that said just sitting on them wont help the situation either. I think discussion is key to these issues, and while I know someone would argue the BBS is the best place to talk about and discuss these things, but for a lot of people (myself included) forums are an archaic way of communicating.
Its just unfortunate that the one thing this site needs to really fix itself, that being time as you said, is that time is one thing the site doesn't have in this age of continually evolving online media.
While I agree that the judgement system on Newgrounds used to be really useful for giving exposure to up-and-coming artists, and it's a shame it doesn't work that way anymore, that doesn't mean the portal is broken. It means it now effectively does the same thing as every other website, or indeed, the same thing as real life, in that you make art (while the internet can host it for you), and then it's up to you to get it out there.
The way the portal drove traffic to new content, and got good content enough views to get the ball rolling and give it a nice score and all that; it was a lovely privilege which nobody else was offering, but it's not something you should feel entitled to. Without it, you are in the same boat as every artist ever. Well, not ever. Pre-internet artists would've had to bust their balls to get their work seen a lot more. So, you're in a better boat than most artists in history.
If there's less people looking at your work than you'd like, don't turn around and say it's the website's fault, or that other artists have it easier coz they've already had their 'big break'. Just suck it up and try harder to get your work out there, and more importantly, try harder to make the work better.
And don't turn around and get bitter because other people are getting exposure who are trying less, or you don't think are as good as you. You can say it's unfair all you want, but the fairness police are never gonna come amend it. Your only choices are to push yourself harder than you think is fair, or not do that, and be happy with your current level of exposure. You're up against every artist on the planet, so until you get some kind of lucky break, you're gonna have to be better, smarter, and more driven than every one else.
That's the way it goes, and I don't think as artists we have a right to complain. We're the ones who want to get money to do fun stuff. If we were waiting tables, we'd have the right to complain if we were being worked too hard. But we're doing what we love, so we need to be prepared to push ourselves to breaking point to get ahead. That's the trade off.
As Mr-Shark so bluntly put it, "suck a dick and try harder".
I sort of agree with you to a degree on how exposure works, but at the same time I think there is a more to it than simply being discovered through pushing yourself. Newgrounds with the portal as it stands now does in a way work in the same way as sites like Youtube and Vimeo where discovery comes down to chance. BUT where things go after discovery is a completely different thing.
This post was about how its hard to get exposure on Newgrounds now, wether it be for me, up and coming animators with work in the portal or people yet to join isn't important. I dont get any exposure on Youtube either despite the fact that I plaster my shit on as many networks as I can. Why doesn't it bother me? Because its Youtube and its very much luck of the draw and im not in it for money. Newgrounds on the other hand is tailored to people looking for animated content and people making animated content, so why should it be suffering the same problems as a site thats got animations competing with vlogs and paid advertisements? The way people look for content is changing, they don't want to go digging for gold, they want gold spoon fed to them, wether thats right or wrong, thats how people consume entertainment now.
Its also worth mentioning that attention can be bought on Youtube, I know this because I get paid an hourly wage to help brands get their videos shared and viewed through social media like facebook and twitter. Most traffic on sites like youtube doesn't come from youtube but rather being embedded and shared by people. Companies or "artists" pay money for other companies to artificially get the ball rolling. For those that dont want to spend money there are other much more shady ways of getting yourself established. Either way, an audience can be found with millions of people who would in no way ever see your work otherwise. Save up a $1000, spend it on advertising your channel through google adsense and watch how far it can get you, you might be surprised.
But you are right, we are not entitled to it, so why have the feature in place at all if its not working that way, if its removed then at least we cant complain about it not working.
In the end, am I complaining because im not getting the views I would like, sure I am. Am I blaming the website? Yeah, im doing that as well. Am I trying to do it in a way that is aggressive? If thats how I came across that wasn't my intention. Im complaining because the the views im getting indicate a lack of traffic going into the portal, which means a lack of traffic to the site, which means the site is struggling and needs to try to fix the issues it has to lure people back to it.
Im going to keep making stuff regardless of how many views its getting because I like making things. I just also like knowing that other people are getting an opportunity to enjoy the results as well. Im not like most other animators, I dont hope to be successful, I know I never will be. In a lot of ways I dont want to have the feeling of worry about losing fans if I make something they dont like, always having what the fans want in the back of my mind would be a creativity killer. Doing what I do pays better then animation ever would and allows me to work on the animation and film projects I want without having to worry about how it goes once its released, im really lucky like that.
The REAL reason the views bother me is because for a lot of younger animators Youtube success seems out of reach and Newgrounds is the only other place to go, lots of these kids I have spoken to are immensely talented BUT are giving up because they feel ignored, and when you spend a month on something thats actually really good, but nobody gets a chance to really see it, it can be discouraging. Especially when your young. Seeing that talent stop and never getting to see them progress to their full potential. THATS probably the most underlying frustration of all.
Slow Clap.. Master Aardvark, lives up to his master status.. I love you Avie
Hes as handsome as he is intelligent. ;3
Lack of views (that's exactly what the problem you describe is) doesn't make the portal broken, the current system may not be as effective as it was in the past, but it's certainly not broken. On a somewhat unrelated note, how often do FOUR website administrators directly reply to a complaint? Such staff interaction sure as hell wouldn't happen on youtube.
lol @ saying 1000+ fans isn't a large fanbase, also i checked out your latest movie submission, you have received 25 reviews IN TWO DAYS, some (most) of us won't even receive half that many reviews in two years (as a sidelight- props to you for responding to them!). nobody is entitled to exposure regardless of how talented they may be, winning awards or getting certain recognition privileges (such as the front page) shouldn't be a primary incentive for creating and posting content, take solace in the fact that there are already many people who enjoy your work. not that I'm trying to minimize any problems/suggestions noted here tho, some complaints and points brought up are valid for areas of improvement. Also consider that a portion of people on this site are not here for the flash content; personally I'm here for blog interaction and the music. Sorry I couldn't relay more pertinent thoughts to this blog, good luck in your future endeavors!
Your right, I probably could have worded it better (or a lot better). The broken portal issue is the very obviously continually having everything on display under judgement with only 1 or 2 projects being blamed a day.
As for how do 4 administrators respond to me directly? I dont know. Maybe I got lucky, maybe its because I have been here for 10 years or maybe its because some know I work in online advertising for a living. Maybe it was none of these things or a combination of all these things.
I dont want to seem ungrateful for what I have, because im not, I appreciate it very much and honestly dont think I deserve any of them. (I always reply to pretty much every comment, regardless of where it is). Nor are awards or front page incentives for me, I mean I put my work across 3 to 5 sites generally. Some people like the awards or front page because it feels like an achievement, I personally am interested in them purely because it means more people get a chance to see my work and give me feedback so I can continue to grow. The rest of my thoughts on the lack of views can be found in my response to Master Aardvark.
I didn't take into account the games or music because they aren't parts of the site I frequent so I feel like I have no business commenting on those areas. Tho I guess they do also slide into the idea of the site having its fingers in too many pies.
Yes, Gerkinman, you've made some very valid observations. As caretaker of NGLogs since 2007, I have been monitoring general stats and trends for the past 6 years. Newgrounds hit it's peak in 2008, and then has been linearly declining since then. The number of total flashes submitted per day has dropped to about half, voting volume is down to 40%, and most people are voting 5 just to get points.
My hypothesis as to why all of this is happening:
1) All those artists who had time years ago are now "grown up" and moved on to busy lives IRL. Content quality has dropped, as well as overall quantity.
2) Most younger internet users are all about "me" , and as such want to see themselves at the top of a list. Voting 5 on everything is a way to do that to get a higher rank.
3) Same users want immediate gratification without effort. YouTube and Facebook let you socialize instantly with thousands of others, and when you upload that video of your kitten eating a bug you can immediately see how many people like it, viewed it or commented on it.
4) Along that same line, they won't wait 20 seconds for a video to play or a game to load - it's either streaming, or it's passed on to the next feature presentation.
5) And, of course, simpler navigation and search functions make their day. Put too much content or too many choices on a page, and they get impatient. Welcome to "short attention span theatre"
I am sure other people have other ideas, but these are just some of mine, IMHO.
So where do we go from here?
Newgrounds has to start attracting more flash artists. They are out there, but they aren't uploading their work here. Remember that the original niche for Newgrounds was showcasing flash work - and that is where we start.
There should be flash contests with cash awards in various categories, such as games, music videos, comedy (as examples - these may vary). Hold 4 contests a year, with judging by a hand-picked panel of users and staffs done at the end of each quarter (March,June,September and December). 1st place is $100, 2nd is $50 and 3rd is $20 for the first 3 quarters - the 4th quarter awards are based on the winners and submissions from the previous three quarters. 1st place would be $250 AND your work showcased on the front page for the next year; 2nd place is $100 and some store credits; 3rd place is $50 and maybe a T shirt).
Just one of my ideas.
Obviously being the log keeper you would have some amazing insights as to whats going on with the site, I cant say I completely agree with you across all fronts however.
1) There are certainly a lot of artists who have grown up and moved on, a lot of others still are just sticking with youtube. A common problem I have heard is that every view on youtube is a paid view, if they were to put their work on Newgrounds it would be getting essentially free views. Of course this isn't how a lot of the younger people are thinking, but the older ones with bills to pay certainly are. I think judging quality can also be hard, do you judge something on its technical merits or on its entertainment merits? As often the two dont go hand in hand.
2) No arguments here with that.
3) Im not saying im all for immediate gratification, but one thing Youtube does allow thanks to its video player system (keep in mind this wont work for games) is that it gives me full analytics to see where people are clicking off my video, where interests are peaking and so on. This information allows me to taylor my future work to make up for the short falls in those other areas. Its a simple tool with a lot of work put into it, but knowing how audience retention work is also an incredibly powerful tool for creators.
4) I wont wait 20 seconds for something to load anymore either. Im a busy man, I have long blog responses to write. <3
5) Simple navigation that works across all platforms, wether it be desktop, mobile or tablet. Especially with media sites such as this. I do most of my browsing of animations and so on in bed on my ipad now, im only on my desktop when im working and I have no interest in watching things at my desk anymore. A lot of people dont even have desktop computers and live on their tablets and phones exclusively. Thats millions of people, potentially views, largely alienated from this site because its just too bloated to navigate properly on those platforms (I know a mobile site is in development and should solve some of this).
I dont think "flash artists" are the best people to attract, or "flash artists" in general is a good term to be using. Flash has a really "amateur" reputation among a lot of potential content creators and by throwing the term around your alienating stop motion, 3d, traditional and other forms of cg animators. This website needs animators and film makers of all genres and styles, flash is after all just a tool and doesn't dictate the content thats being made with it. Sure its easy to beginners to use, but there are already thousands of established content creators animating with other tools that should be just as much the target to bring here.
Contests are certainly a good incentive for the younger crowd, but the prizes wont much interest people who are older or already making money on youtube. The whole advertisers thing is a blog post for another time tho.
Certainly some interesting points and thoughts tho.
Very well said. I think one of the big problems on the user-base end is that people don't really realize the scope of how small NG is. We're on Facebook, YouTube, Tumblr, Twitter, etc. for a huge chunk of our internet experience, and we start to expect that pristine, calculated experience on all websites. We expect all the aspects of NG to be perfect, when, in reality, not every problem can be addressed.
We forget that most websites don't have those million dollar ad systems. We forget that it's simply not possible to have every aspect of a website be flawless. We get spoiled on these sites, and want to have that experience everywhere.
Then there's the whole multi-subculture experience of NG. There are the animators, the musicians, the artists, the developers, etc., and each wants NG to work a certain way. NG deals with a handful of incredibly niche hobbyists and has to cater to each in a different way. Move UJ to the FP, and all the sudden musicians have less room for their work; take UJ away completely and new animators get zero exposure. It's a tough situation and everyone ends up with a degree of anger no matter the outcome.
In the end, I'm just glad the site is here and trying. I don't frequent many websites where I can message the creator about a minor issue and receive a response within a few hours; it's certainly not something I'd find somewhere like YouTube. I think a lot of the complaining kind of shows that these subcultures feel this way, as well.
@SafePlagiarism
I've been here longer than my sign-up date, and I guess I expected more with time, but what we got, is stability. Tom's all for listening and short on doing, which isn't a bad thing when it comes to Newgrounds.
I only wish the guy's responsible for coding were (actually, not like Congress) sequestered for a week, together, in the same room. Go down the buglist, get it all sorted, then streamline the code, so we don't get 504 messages when the favorites/updates DO work.
As far as the sub-cultures/factions of NG, maybe there should be a big circle of buttons (on the FP, instead of a nav-bar), for every discipline (movies, games, music...), with the interior ones being it's corresponding BBS forum. Just a thought. A lot of folks that use the BBS, don't even see the content uploaded :p
I truly like the idea, that my primary source of entertainment, is this place. The folks who upload here, only want their work to be seen (and loved, and hugged and kissed...), and maybe, just maybe, get a few shekels in return. I'd rather get lost here, than meander around YouTube, or some awful, white place like Facebook :O We are the great masked Mexican wrestlers of teh interwebs, and should make no apologies for our size, or our duct-taped GUI to newcomers.
<a href="http://www.newgrounds.com/news/community">http://www.newgrounds.com/news/community</a> I should greet some of the new fish, like I did before the redesign...
it's because the Portal is flooded with crap regularly, and I like to vote every day I can...but you're right....there's no freakin' incentive! Whoohoo, my vote is worth 5.5 votes, and the submission has changed in rating by %.0001.....all it does is protect the submission against 5 unfair votes.
I get a little icon of some kinda weapon, and that "feel-good" thing. Whoop-de-doo!
Most people don't think of it in those terms I described, and most don't want to sit through "Clip-Art:THE GAME" or "My First Stick-Doodle". So they don't visi the portal, they just check out whatever clawed its way to the front-page. That's my theory.
it's because the Portal is flooded with crap regularly, and I like to vote every day I can...but you're right....there's no freakin' incentive! Whoohoo, my vote is worth 5.5 votes, and the submission has changed in rating by %.0001.....all it does is protect the submission against 5 unfair votes.
I get a little icon of some kinda weapon, and that "feel-good" thing. Whoop-de-doo!
Most people don't think of it in those terms I described, and most don't want to sit through "Clip-Art:THE GAME" or "My First Stick-Doodle". So they don't visi the portal, they just check out whatever clawed its way to the front-page. That's my theory.
You summed up my thoughts so eloquently I think I need to add you as a friend. <3
Exedor
@TomFulp and Gerkinman. Yes, the incentive to vote has been lost or compromised. B/P points have been compromised and the FUN has been lost.
Many people don't vote. I'll see 280-350 views on the UJ page, but it's still UJ, so that's less than 200 votes. Why?
-The FUN: What I used to love about NG when I first found it was the animations that played when a submission was either blammed or protected. It was an incentive to vote, cuz you may see the animation, which was fun. It made it feel like you actually did something. Without those, how people vote has changed. A higher % of people voting will get thing out of UJ faster.
-B/P points: I like the idea of being rewarded for voting correctly, but the quality of stuff that passes has really dropped. People vote just about everything thru for 2 reasons:
1. The want to get their Protection point, and they don't care if it's a good or bad submission.
2. They're new, and don't know what's supposed to be they vote everything thru to get their point as in #1 above. And:
With the spam groups voting their low quality content thru, it really has lowered the standard that NG used to hold dear. As seasoned users have left and new users have arrived, they get used to ho hum submissions and everthing gets thru. Just cuz it's a first flash doesn't mean it needs to get thru. What's the incentive to improve if everything you do gets thru? Blams have been 0 per day. Check a date in the Obituaries, and then check the same date 5 years ago. More blams then than submissions today.
I love my B/P rank, but I'd give it up if it'd help stop people from passing everything just to get B/P... /P points. Experience points could be the main rank around here.
It would also help to have the ability to flag more. We can flag reviews and submissions, but BBS posts and comments to news posts are often rude, but we can't flag them. GOOD artists have left with assholes hurling insults as they head out the door! Like:
rtil: <a href="http://rtil.newgrounds.com/news/post/557284#comments">http://rtil.newgrounds.com/news/post/557284#co mments</a>
MikeandTreyVideo: <a href="http://mikeandtreyvideo.newgrounds.com/news/post/801746#comments">http://mikeandtreyvideo.newgrounds.com/news/po st/801746#comments</a>
Rude people have forced great artists away, and no one wins. Adult content scares people off too. How can I bring up NG at work with A's all over, y'know?
Hey Tom, can we get more characters in posts, titles, reviews, and such? Sux runnin out of room.
Gerkinman
I for one actually really enjoy a lot of spam work, im not someone that thinks that quality can be judged by something like animation quality or story, i find things to be quality if they make me feel good which lots of goofy spam animations did.